October 16, 1998: DOWNLOADED from http://hyperreal.org/drugs/synthesis/meth.synth.hi ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dcopela@mail.pacifier.com (David Copeland) Subject: methamphetamine sythesis Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <34a484c8.0@news.pacifier.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: dcopela@pacifier.com Organization: Pacifier Internet Server (360) 693-0325 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry --okay; All you people who want an easy meth systhesis - They don't exist! You have to know some chemistry. Learn some (yes it takes some discipline) or be doomed to fail. So, again, this information is posted for information purposes only. I accept no responsibility for anyone actually using this. If you do you will be subject to state and federal laws and will be subject to fines and/or imprisonment. If you are stupid enough to actually manufacture meth you WILL probably go to prison. This is the 90's. So to make meth from ephedrine- Using l- or pseudo ephedrine place 1000 gms of ephedrine, 250gms of red phosphorus, and 1000ml of hydriotic acid in a suitable round bottom flask. Fit the flask with a reflux condenser and reflux the mixture for 48hrs at 120 degrees C. Add a 10% solution of sodium hydroxide until the Ph is 14. You should get an oil layer and a water layer. Separate the oil layer in a separatory funnel and put it a flask with 3 volumes of water. Rig the flask for distillation and distill the oil water mixture until the oil is mostly gone (except for highly colored globs of oil.) In the reciever flask there should be two layers, an upper oil layer and a lower water layer. Separate the oil layer and mix it with 10% hydrochloric acid until the Ph is 7.6. evaporate the water and it will crystallize into methamphetamine hcl. ------------------------------------------------------- Pacifier Online Data Service Dialup SLIP/PPP User To register: (360) 693-0325 or telnet pods.pacifier.com ------------------------------------------------------- From: loonus@aol.com (Loonus) Subject: CLIC Homepage Methamphetamine Synthesis Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <19971101033400.WAA05094@ladder01.news.aol.com> X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry "We have observed that mixtures containing red phosphorus, iodine and either concentrated HCl or glacial acetic acid do convert ephedrine to methamphetamine; however, when the phosphorus is omitted, methamphetamine is not formed. Ephedrine was reacted with red phosphorus and iodine in refluxing water, varying the ratios of red phosphorus and iodine; when red phosphorus and iodine are in excess of ephedrine in a 1:3.8:7.2 molar ratio (ephedrine:red phosphorus:iodine) methamphetamine is formed and the ephedrine is consumed in 8 hours." Anyone have any thoughts, experience with the typical E-RP-HA when the usually separate step of creating the hydriotic acid is omitted and the three chemicals are just reacted in refluxing water. It seems like that is what is being described (along with acid substitution). oo 0' ' ' From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Subject: Microscale Meth Synthesis Using Grocery Store Materials Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <6am5tp$mum@basement.replay.com> X-001: Replay may or may not approve of the content of this posting X-002: Report misuse of this automated service to X-URL: http://www.replay.com/remailer/ X-XS4ALL-Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:42:03 CET Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P. Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry Materials: 1. 30ml bottle tincture iodine containing 2% iodine, sodium iodide 2.4%, alcohol 47%, rest H20 2. 5 Sinustop Herbal Decongestant tablets containing 60mg crystaline pseudoephedrine HCl each mixed with some herbal ingrediants. Or 300mg of ephedrine obtained thru some other method. 3. 5 road flares. 4. Bottle of drain cleaner containg conc. H2SO4 5. Bottle white distilled vinegar 6. Red devil Lye containing sodium hydroxide 7. Spray can of brake cleaner containing 1,1,1 trichloroethylene or 1,1,1 trichloroethane ------------ Procedure: A. Purifying pseudoephedrine: 1. Take the 5 decongestant capsules, empty their contents into a small funnel with a coffee filter. Pour 50ml of cold water through the filter, and collect the liquid in a small jar. 2. Add a 1/4tsp of lye to the collected liquid. You should immediately smell the odor of ephedrine. 3. Put the resultant solution in another small jar, and add 50ml of brake cleaner, then close the lid and shake vigorously. Let stand so that the layers seperate. 4. Using a turkey baster, suck up the bottom brake cleaner layer out of the jar and put it into a small bowl. 5. Add 50ml of vinegar and heat the resultant mixure over low heat in a frying pan with 1/2 inch of water. Thus a water bath. Do not use a gas stove, since the brake cleaner vapors will produce toxic phosgene if there is contact with a flame. Instead use a hot plate or electric stove at low heat only. 6. Heat the bowl in the water bath until no more liquid is left. At the bottom will be a solid layer of a pseudoephedrine acetate. B. Preparing the red phosphorus: 1. Scrape the red phosphorus off of the caps of the 5 flares and store for later use. You should get about 0.1g per flare. C. Preparing the iodine/HI solution: 1. Pour the entire bottle of the iodine tincture into a small ceramic bowl. Heat on the above type water bath until no more alcohol is left. Let cool, put in a small polyethylene jar, and add 0.1ml of the H2SO4 drain cleaner. Thats about 1/4inch of liquid in the end of an eye dropper. This converts the sodium iodide to HI. You now have a solution of iodine and HI. 2. Add the red phosphorus, and heat bottle in a water bath until the purple iodine color goes away. D. The reaction: 1. Add the pseudoephedrine acetate to the solution of HI/I and phosphorus, and heat on a water bath for 24 hours. E: Extraction: 1. Cool the reaction solution and add 1/2tsp of lye. Take the solution and perform steps A3-A6. 2. You will end up with methamphetamine acetate that you can scrape from the bowl. Congradulations! You have circumvented all of law enforcement and have greatly contributed to the end of the "drug war". (or contributed to the outlaw of all flares, iodine tincture, vignegar, drain cleaners, and auto store chemicals and coffee filters as will happen in the next year) Best regards, Cousin Singe From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey) Subject: Re: Testing for bunk Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <44hgdc$j4b@pilot.njin.net> references: <43aqhu$njr@news1.wolfe.net> <43ct9h$oth@cello.gina.calstate.edu> organization: Rutgers University newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry FAQ fodder... If methamphetamine looks waxy or oily, it is probably contaminated with the HI salt of meth, an oily by-product of the red-phosphorous/HI reduction of ephedrine--the most prevalent method of clandestine manufacture. The HI salt is soluble in acetone, while the HCL salt is only very slightly soluble. The HI salt could be washed out, basified, and then precipitated with HCl gas to give methamphetmine HCL. When completely dry, methamphetamine HCL is soluble in chloroform, while ephedrine HCL is not. This would provide a convenient method of separation. [Reference: Skinner, Harry F., "Methamphetamine Synthesis Via Hydriotic Acid/Red Phosphorous Reduction Of Ephedrine," Forensic Science International, Vol 48, 1990, pp. 123-134] [Provided for academic interest. Do not attempt. Etc.] Sean -- ``Wind, waves, etc. are breakdowns in the face of the commitment to getting from here to there. But they are conditions for sailing -- not something to be gotten rid of, but something to be danced with.'' From: josh Subject: Re: methamphetamine synthesis Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <33080728.14C5@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: <3307B9DA.CA7@cyber-state.com> To: guest@cyber-state.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Guest wrote: > > I'm posting this 'cause I'm sick and tired of people asking and no real > answers. I want some things in return. But heres the synh. This is > from Space Monkey the original biker cook! > > Get 22,000ml boiling flask with a condenser and mantle. Add 5 pounds of > l-ephedrine hydrochloride. Pour in one gallon of hydriodic acid. Add > 1000 grams of red phosphorus. > > Crank up the mantle and let it boil for 13 hours. Now think for a > minute: Take the output off the top of the condenser, put a check valve > in line with a long piece of tygon tubing and bubble the output of the > tube through a bucket of water outside where you are cooking. That way > there is no accumulation of hydrogen in the house to blow you to > he-double toothpicks. > > Now that the 13 hours are up, turn off the mantle, but let the condenser > run until the flask is cool enough to pick up. > > During this 13 hours of cooking, you have made a strong lye solution. > Now fill a big carboy with spigot about a third of the way with clear > ice from the liquor store (it is made with distilled water [duh]). Pour > the lye solution over the ice. > > Now pour the contents of the boiling flask into the ice/lye filled > carbouy and agitate. > > An oil layer will seperate on top. This is methamphetamine free-base. > > Discard the water layer, save the oil > > Put the oil in beaker so you know how much you have. > > Now add equal parts of VERY hot water and oil in a seperatory funnel and > shake for a couple of minutes. > > Put the sep funnel in a ring stand and let it sit for about 10 minutes > till the crap falls out of the oil into the water. Discard the water. > Keep doing this until the oil clean. > > Now start adding Hydrochloric acid to the oil. It will take lots at > first. Keep testing with pH test papers. > When it starts to change, add the acid in little bits, cause just a > little too much will push the ph the wrong way... > > Perfect pH is 7 > > Now you have a mixture of pure methamphetamine in water. > > Put the whole thing in an electric oven at the lowest setting and let > sit till dry. > > It will be yellow. Now put it in a jar with acetone and shake it up, > this will get rid of the yellow. > > You will have 5 + pounds of absolutely pure meth. > > Popeye, elusis, Yogi read it and agree! > > Now my questions that you who will use this owe me for having the balls > to post it: > > 1) I tried this with iodine/red phosphorus/distilled water in > proportions found on the lycaeum home page. I also used pseudoephedrine > extracted from white 60mg tabs. I extracted with distilled water, > filtered till clear and let dry. > > What I got when I added the boiled product to the lye was a suspension > of red phosphorus globules that did not float or sink. It smelled like > meth, but I know better. If it had worked, I would have gotten an oil. > > What happened? > > 2) Post this new epenephrine synth I hear people talking about > > 3) I hear that oxymethazoline HCL can be made into something like > meth. Post it > > Thanks. > > Elusis, popeye where are you?" this is close to the synthesis ive seen used. and pseudoephedrine works real well, giving a very good product. but the tabs that were being used were 30mg thins very much like the 25mg ephedrine thins that everyone else in the us was using to make CAT. but about the time that ephedrine became impossible to get the 30mg sudafed thins disappeared too..being replaced by 60mg thicks..these were loaded with gummy binder that is impossible to get rid of. when this stuff was boiled in HI acid it turned into a dark red sludge which kind of was thicker on the top just like what you are describing.....i have been told that the 4th ed of Secrets of Meth Manufacture has a way of removing the binder out of these tabs. but i haven't bought it hoping that someone might post the route for this extraction method. if you run accross it or get told of it post it. i will do the same for the group if i find it. josh From: Joe.Student@asu.edu (Information Technology) Subject: Re: mistake in iodine phos. synthesis? Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: References: <01bc41ad$74e8e920$LocalHost@default> <335e22a6.13168110@news.wco.com> <334bcd55.6004785@news.wco.com> Organization: Arizona State University Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.chemistry > >a little. This is from memory...I don't have my notes with me...so if I > >get it wrong I will post it later..I did the calculation for making 340mL > >HI first so to make 3.5 molar soln it's around 150g of I2...and about 12g > >of P4 then brought to volume. I THINK this is from memory. Then he > >calls for 40g of P4 added as a catalyst. This is the same as having > > Well, it isn't a "catalyst". When it is used in this set of reactions, > it is used up, producing phosphorus acid. > Not all P4 is used up. There must be an "excess" amount of P4 to drive the reaction. Therfore P4 acts as a catalyst. 1 Ephedrine HCL + 1/2 I2 ----> 1 I- sustituted "Ephedrine" HCL + 1 OH- 150g 94.44g 231.80g 12.64g 1 I-sub "Ephedrine HCl" + H+ -----> 1 Methamphetamine HCL + 1/2 I2 231.8g 0.74g 138.12g 94.44g The excess P4 reacts with the liberated I2 to make more HI acid. If The calculatins are incorrect let me know mole amounts used: Ephedrine HCl = 201.64g Methamphetamine HCL = 185.64g just trying to help tweaker From: egendorf@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Robert Egendorf) Subject: PPA to meth? Please Comment Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <5se45g$36e$1@netnews.upenn.edu> Organization: University of Pennsylvania Newsgroups: rec.drugs.chemistry,alt.drugs.chemistry Uncle Fester's Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture describes a procedure for producing methamphetamine via the reduction of pseudoephedrine or ephedrine with HI and red phosphorus. Fester's reduction uses red phosphorus and iodine to form the HI used in the reaction. This is a well known reaction and has appeared in print in: Skinner, HF "Methamphetamine Synthesis via Hydroidic Acid/ Red Phosphorus Reduction of Ephedrine", Forensic Science International 48 (1990): 123-124 Ephedrine and Psuedoephedrine reduce to methamphetamine; PPA reduces to amphetamine. Instead of making the HI via red phosphorus and iodine, let's consider forming it via DMSO, H2SO4, and NaI or KI. This is an extension of Vogel's Practical Organic Textbook's reaction for making HBr. The same one appeared in Pugsley's Bromosafrole preparation. Accordingly: 334g KI or 300g NaI (2M amount) + 400ml distilled water are mixed and cooled in an ice bath. 180ml H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) is added dropwise so that the temperature stays below 75C. As a side note, DMT or HMPT can be used instead of DMSO. However, for this discussion, DMSO is necessary. Now that the HI is formed from DMSO, the reduction of PPA is continued according to Fester: 150g PPA HCl + 40g Red Phosphorus + 340ml HI (made from DMSO) are mixed together in a 1000ml flat bottom (round bottoms require oil baths for heat). This solution is refluxed for 1 day, at least. Make the solution basic via NaOH (lye) to bring out the free base. Extract out the freebase and convert to the hydrochloride. Normally, PPA reduced with HI will form amphetamine. However, it is rumored that the DMSO will aid in methylenating the PPA. In other words, the PPA is reduced via the HI and as a side reaction is methylenated by the DMSO. This will theoretically yield methamphetamine For further information about DMSO, consult Fieser and Fieser "Reagents in Organic Synthesis." Supposedly, very little of the Iodine dissolves in the DMSO, but a lot of it reacts without the whole mass dissolving first. Could the "extra" DMSO be used to methylenate the PPA? Is this a viable mmethod of producing methamphetamine from PPA? Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated. -- R. Zachary Egendorf "I was one born, long ago. I am the egendorf@mail.sas.upenn.edu chosen. I'm the one." University of Pennsylvania - Lenny Kravitz Class of 1997 - Hopefully... From: iodosafrole@hotmail.com Subject: Cranksters Please Read & Respond - Steve Quest, JD Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <873861819.15900@dejanews.com> X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Originating-IP-Addr: 128.91.200.77 (TS5-13.UPENN.EDU) Organization: Deja News Posting Service X-Authenticated-Sender: iodosafrole@hotmail.com X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Sep 10 03:24:35 1997 GMT Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.chemistry This is posted for info only. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS SYNTHESIS. DO NOT DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL. With that in mind, let's talk about speed syntheses. 1. Red phosphorus and HI. 450ml of 57% HI, 160g of l-ephedrine or d-pseudoephedrine, and 25g of red phosphorus are refluxed for at least 32 hours. The ratio for the HI and the ephedrine are: 2 parts Iodine, 1 part Ephedrine, 1/2 part red phos. The red phos in this ratio is used to synthesize the HI. For example, 320g Iodine:160g Ephedrine:80g red phos. The Iodine is insitu or in dH2O. A flat bottom flask is nestled in an ice bath with stirring and contains 400ml dH2O (Is this correct?) and 320g of Iodine. The red phos is added SLOWLY and a lot of heat is given off. Allow the solution to react for about 20 minutes. Remove the ice bath and place the flask on a heating mantle. Attach a condensor and boil under reflux for about 36 hours. Remove the heating mantle and allow cool water to continue to flow through the condensor for about an hour. Pour the red solution through a series of doubled up coffee filters to remove the red phos for later use. Dilute the solution with an equal volume of distilled water. Prepare a dilute lye solution by dissolving lye pellets (RED DEVIL LYE) in dH2O. Liberate the freebase crank oil by adding the lye solution. The crank oil should float on top of the solution, which should be strongly basic. Extract the crank oil with Toluene. Bubble HCl gas through to form the salt. Wash the crystals with acetone and spread out on a plate to dry. Now this method may produce a somewhat crude product. There may be some unreacted iodoephedrine. This may be rectified by recrystalization. Dissolve the crystals in hot ethyl alcohol and tartaric acid. This will separate the d-isomer of methamphetamine from any impurities. I believe that the theory behind this reaction is that red phosphorus reacts with Iodine to form PI3 - Phosphorus Triiodide. The PI3 and water form phosphorus acid and HI. The HI absorbs the hydrogen atom of the ephedrine. It is dehydrating the benzyl alcohol. The red phosphorus (the 25g in this reaction) acts as a recycler for the HI. Journal Article: Topics in Forensic Science International. Skinner wrote an article detailing this procedure. Sources: Red phosphorus: Grind up some flare caps, boil in dH2O, filter and save the filter cake Iodine: Buy some bottles of Iodine at the drugstore. Either set up a double boiler with a metal plate on top to catch the vapors or dry it with a little sulfuric acid (drain cleaner) Lye: Red Devil Lye at the hardware store Toluene: Hardware Store Tartaric Acid: Cream of Tartar Questions: 1. Phosphorus acid, Phosphoric acid, and Hypophosphoric acid are available commercially. Phosphoric acid is available in the building materials section of Home Depot. How could these be used in the reduction and how would they affect the numbers? 2. This is probably from a bullshit recipe, but could TripleSuperPhosphate be used in place of the red phos catalyst? There was mention of a recipe that used 150 parts Iodine:30 parts TripleSuperPhosphate:20g of Aluminum. The Iodine is not in water, but in phosphoric acid. Could phosphoric acid react with Iodine to form HI? Phosphoric acid contains water. In the Merck, Aluminum is said to react with a dilute acid to evolve into hydrogen. Could the hydrogen that is evolved from the Al react with Iodine? Not having tried this - it would be illegal - I am not sure about what is happening in the reaction. How would the phosphoric acid react with the TripleSuperPhosphate? If this is a valid method of producing HI, could AlI3 be used - Aluminum Iodine? 3. Instead of forming the HI from red phosphorus and iodine, it can be synthesized from DMSO, sulfuric acid, and either Sodium Iodine or Potassium Iodine. In an ice bath with stirring, a 2M amount of NaI or KI is dissolved in 400ml anhydrous DMSO. 180ml of sulfuric acid are added. In theory, this should be anhydrous HI. Now, how would the ratio of 450ml HI + 160g Ephedrine + 25g red phos ratio be adjusted? There is also a rumor that because dimethyl sulfate is a methylating agent, PPA (Dexatrim) can be reduced to methamphetamine instead of benzedrine. I would assume that the PPA would have to be dissolved in the DMSO before the HI is formed. Any thoughts? This was posted out of academic interest only. Do not do anything illegal. Posted from the city so nice they named it West Philadelphia. -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet From: jagerken@checfs2.ucsd.edu (James Gerken) Subject: Re: Cranksters Please Read & Respond - Steve Quest, JD Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <5vau8t$b2r$1@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <873861819.15900@dejanews.com> Organization: UCSD - Chemistry and Biochemistry Newsgroups: alt.drugs.chemistry,rec.drugs.chemistry In article <873861819.15900@dejanews.com> iodosafrole@hotmail.com writes: >This is posted for info only. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS SYNTHESIS. >DO NOT DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL. No problemo, just relocate your lab to a friendly jurisdiction like the lost continent of Mu or somewhere.:) >1. Red phosphorus and HI. 450ml of 57% HI, 160g of l-ephedrine >or d-pseudoephedrine, and 25g of red phosphorus are refluxed for >at least 32 hours. The ratio for the HI and the ephedrine are: >2 parts Iodine, 1 part Ephedrine, 1/2 part red phos. The red >phos in this ratio is used to synthesize the HI. For example, >320g Iodine:160g Ephedrine:80g red phos. The Iodine is insitu It may be possible to get away with a small amount of iodine, since it is recycled in the reaction unless the reduction of iodoamphetamine by HI is the rate-limiting step. >the condensor for about an hour. Pour the red solution through >a series of doubled up coffee filters to remove the red phos for >later use. Dilute the solution with an equal volume of >distilled water. Prepare a dilute lye solution by dissolving The dilution step is unwise. It only makes the extraction harder, requiring larget volumes of solvent. >lye pellets (RED DEVIL LYE) in dH2O. Liberate the freebase >crank oil by adding the lye solution. The crank oil should >float on top of the solution, which should be strongly basic. >Extract the crank oil with Toluene. Bubble HCl gas through to >form the salt. Wash the crystals with acetone and spread out on >a plate to dry. Or extract with ether which is then rotovapped off for recovery, and recrystallize the product from a mildly acidic aqueous solution. Recrystallization, if done properly is a powerful purificatory tool and a technique that everyone should know. It's also pretty to watch. >I believe that the theory behind this reaction is that red >phosphorus reacts with Iodine to form PI3 - Phosphorus >Triiodide. The PI3 and water form phosphorus acid and HI. The >HI absorbs the hydrogen atom of the ephedrine. It is That would be the oxygen atom. >Red phosphorus: Grind up some flare caps, boil in dH2O, filter >and save the filter cake There is also a rather involved process by which bone meal can be heated with charcoal to produce white phosphorus vapor that can be condensed for conversion to red phosphorus. This is technically demanding however, and probably not worth the trouble under normal circumstances. On the other hand, abnormal circumstances are the daily bread of the speedchef. >Iodine: Buy some bottles of Iodine at the drugstore. Either set There is a camping water purification treatment that uses crystalline iodine that is much more practical in cases where bulk iodine is unavailable. >Tartaric Acid: Cream of Tartar For stereospecific crystallization, you will need enantiomerically pure tartaric acid. Cream of tartar is not pure in this fashion. >1. Phosphorus acid, Phosphoric acid, and Hypophosphoric acid >are available commercially. Phosphoric acid is available in the >building materials section of Home Depot. How could these be >used in the reduction and how would they affect the numbers? They could be used for polishing any metal piping used in your apparatus. As reducing agents, they are utterly useless. They are the end product of the red phosphorus reduction, the ashes of the reaction. >2. This is probably from a bullshit recipe, but could >TripleSuperPhosphate be used in place of the red phos catalyst? No, see above. >There was mention of a recipe that used 150 parts Iodine:30 >parts TripleSuperPhosphate:20g of Aluminum. The Iodine is not >in water, but in phosphoric acid. Could phosphoric acid react {Deletia} >into hydrogen. Could the hydrogen that is evolved from the Al >If this is a valid method of producing HI, could AlI3 be used - This may not be entirely bogus. If the phosphoric acid is left out, iodine attacks aluminum metal to form the halide. Now, AlI3 may seem like a dead end, but it must be remembered that aluminum halides vigorously hydrolize to form the hydrohalic acid and aluminum hudroxide/oxide/dissolved ion species. Worth looking into. >3. Instead of forming the HI from red phosphorus and iodine, it >can be synthesized from DMSO, sulfuric acid, and either Sodium >Iodine or Potassium Iodine. In an ice bath with stirring, a 2M {Deletia} >HI. Now, how would the ratio of 450ml HI + 160g Ephedrine + 25g >red phos ratio be adjusted? There is also a rumor that because THat depends on the concentration of the HI in the DMSO. This can be calculated from the amounts in your original post and has been left as an exercise. >dimethyl sulfate is a methylating agent, PPA (Dexatrim) can be >reduced to methamphetamine instead of benzedrine. I would >assume that the PPA would have to be dissolved in the DMSO >before the HI is formed. Any thoughts? There is a sizable difference between DMSO and dimethyl sulphate. Without careful control, dimethylamphetamine would be a serious problem as an undesired product. Also, there are less toxic and more readily available methods for methylating amines. Given the ready avalability of pseudoephedrine, this step is not needed. Justified and Ancient, James -- passion=life